Industry-Led Smear Campaign Against SiCKO Makes Its Way To Drudge
Industry-Led Smear Campaign Against SiCKO Makes Its Way To Drudge
Currently atop the Drudge Report is a gigantic ad by “Health Care America,” which states, “In America you wait in line to see a movie. In government-run healthcare systems, you wait to see a doctor”:
The ad is part of the industry-led smear campaign against Michael Moore’s movie SiCKO. The group is “financed in part by pharmaceutical and hospital companies.” Its Advisory Board includes President Bush’s former HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson. In June, the organization “staged a conference call that drew nearly 20 reporters from around the country,” with the purpose of discussing “what Michael Moore left out of his movie.”
Additionally, the PR firm MultiVu is distributing a “fake news video” smearing SiCKO. The firm receives funding from Health Care America.
These industry-funded organizations attacking Moore argue that the United States has the best health care system in the world. But in reality, the United States is behind in preventing asthma-related deaths, vaccinating children against polio, and providing flu shots to seniors. Americans also, on average, die at a younger age compared to the average age of death of comparable nations. Yet health spending “per capita in the United States is much higher than in other countries — at least 24% higher than in the next highest spending countries, and over 90% higher than in many other countries that we would consider global competitors.”
UPDATE: Michael Moore will be conducting a live chat at Crooks and Liars on Sunday afternoon at 4pm (EST), 1pm (PT).
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All the health care numbers you could ever need are here. This summary includes comparisons of the American health care system relative to other countries and between the states, plus data on the uninsured, rising health care costs, the woes of Medicare and Medicaid and more.
For all the details, see:
July 21st, 2007 at 10:06 pm“SiCKO Required Reading: U.S. Health Care by the Numbers.”
Yes, that’s why I prefer the American health care system. I don’t have to wait in line to hear about the treatments that are going to bankrupt me, or that my HMO says I can’t have.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:07 pmOMFG. THis is hilarious!!!
July 21st, 2007 at 10:11 pmNerd attack.
if you get the chance, listen to RING OF FIRE on AirAmericaRadio
tomorrow… it’s a rebroadcast of today’s show…
bobby interviewed: Jonathan Cohn, author of Sick: The Untold Story of America’s Health Care
it was a very interesting talk…
July 21st, 2007 at 10:13 pmyou can stream at link above… the rebroadcast on sunday
is 8-10pm eastern…
The ad is part of the industry-led smear campaign against Michael Moore’s movie SiCKO.
How is this a smear ?
Moore made a movie highligting all the drawbacks of the US health care system and promoting all the benefits of public health care systems around the world without mentioning the inherent drawback this results in.
You’re calling the biggest problem with public health care that plagues every system worldwide — the wait list for surgery — as a smear.
If you want to suggest this isn’t an accurate assessment then just say that. I think everyone will figure out why you haven’t though. Even if they pretend they haven’t.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:17 pmoh, and there’s alway the podcast of RING OF FIRE…
July 21st, 2007 at 10:18 pmgreat show!
Obviously, the health care monopoly forgets one critical factor in their smear campaign - that every american has personally experienced the horrible health care industry in this country first hand. They’ve totally lost it if they believe that any puff piece they conjure up will not fly in the face of the reality of each american’s personal health care nightmare. How utterly sick-o!
July 21st, 2007 at 10:18 pmEven if they pretend they haven’t.
Comment by Kilo
I’m too tired to deal w/ this idiot tonight. I’ll leave it up to the rest of you to hand him his head on a platter.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:19 pmWe’ve witnessed Bushco attempt to rewire history; this is comical in that they actually believe that they, Big Pharma/Big Health Insurance would have a chance of rewriting each of our experiences with this system. This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Nice try Big HealthCare …. and thanks for playing!
July 21st, 2007 at 10:21 pmI’ll leave it up to the rest of you to hand him his head on a platter.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
In fact, Kilo deals with himself every night. He just nitpicks some comment made by TP and use a 20 y/o philosophy-student-rethoric in order to sound educated but makes no point whatsoever and completely ignores the issue at hand. Night after night. As irrelevant as Jake and Mr. P, in my opinion.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:25 pmKilo:
It’s not a smear at all, but to Leftists, anything that doesn’t fit their ideological views is seen as a threat or a smear.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:25 pmKlaus: AMEN, brother!
(The 2nd comment in the whole thread)
Stop the lies. Stop the smears. You shouldn’t have to be rich to get health-care.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:28 pmIt’s not a smear at all, but to Leftists, anything that doesn’t fit their ideological views is seen as a threat or a smear.
Comment by Kalashnikov
Keep telling yourself that, Mr P, and you’ll end up believing it. And then, you’ll be even more f*cked than you already are.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:29 pmBTW, every concerned, working, ethical healthcare professional I’ve talked to says the system is broken.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:30 pmLet’s not forget about those that only wish to have an opportunity to wait in line. Ridiculous ad.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:30 pmBut they don’t know anything, they just work in the field. I’m sure Kilo and Kali know more ** cough… cough **.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:31 pmThere is a ‘tiny’ problem with your write-up, though.
America is behind in Polio vaccinations because we ridded the disease 30 years ago… we don’t have to vaccinate people anymore :)
Everything else is spot-on though.
We rank, IIRC, 34th in global life span… that’s pretty sad. Canada’s? #11.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:31 pmThis is actually really sad. If people wanted to ridicule the Drudge Report, they could go there themselves.
Why is TP devoting an entire thread to an ad at the Drudge Report?
Slow news day?
Disappointed that Bush’s procedure turned out just fine?
It’s funny, you Leftists always need someone or something to hate…
July 21st, 2007 at 10:37 pm“but to Leftists, anything that doesn’t fit their ideological views is seen as a threat or a smear.”
Comment by Kalashnikov
Or as a joke. Your commentary fits in that category…
July 21st, 2007 at 10:39 pmIn America you wait in line to see a movie. In government-run healthcare systems, you wait to see a doctor
Crap we must have this now, because every time I go to the doctor at my scheduled time I wait, and wait and wait and wait. Took my girlfriend a month ago for Lasik and waited an hour and a half. And insurance doesn’t cover that, even though it’s cheaper than glasses/contacts.
For a great example of what govt controlled corporation can do take a look at the US Postal Service, still the worlds best, cheapest, and most efficient postal service. And unlike what many people think it receives NO MONEY from taxes, and is the only corporation required to keep an office open in almost every city in the USA. These run at a loss all year long, but still manages to make a profit, as well pay employees a livable wage and benefits too.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:44 pmIn federal lobbying alone, healthcare spending exceeded $2.2 billion the past decade, during which healthcare surpassed all other industry sectors in lobbying expenditures.
NewsMax.com Wires
Friday, June 22, 2007
WASHINGTON — Massive spending by the healthcare industry is swamping the nation’s political process, according to the findings of a new report issued today. It coincides with the premiere of Michael Moore’s new documentary “SiCKO,” a searing indictment of the U.S. healthcare system which opens nationwide June 29.
Moore’s film is simply attemting to place balance in the huge dollars spent by the healthcare industry to make us think they’re the best.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:45 pmObviously, the health care monopoly forgets one critical factor in their smear campaign - that every american has personally experienced the horrible health care industry in this country first hand. They’ve totally lost it if they believe that any puff piece they conjure up will not fly in the face of the reality of each american’s personal health care nightmare. How utterly sick-o!
Comment by veritas
The problem is that you’re not taking envy into account. What I’ve encountered a lot over the last few years are people who have terrible or non-existent medical insurance and, rather than being angry at their employers or angry at the corporate/political alliance that denies them rights their parents may have learned to take for granted, they simply resent anyone who has decent coverage. And, of course, anyone who works for a government agency and has largely sacrificed pay increases for good health insurance comes in for particular rage.
There is a solid uncurrent of “if I can’t have it, no one can have it!” that helps to undermine what was once a sense of solidarity among the working- and middle-class. Now it’s pretty much everyone for himself.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:47 pmKnow more how ?
You mean like living in a country with a public health care system ?
Watching and reading the news in such a country where the stories about chronic shortages of resources, people going without care or dying as a result of delays isn’t pinned on HMOs but another culprit ?
Do you know anything about the drawbacks of the health care system in your country ?
Yeah well people in other countries with public health care systems know about theirs.
It’s a pretty simple concept. Try to wrap your head around it.
And just like you can hear about the drawbacks ofthe US system from US citizens you can hear about the drawbacks of foreign systems from foreigners. But you won’t.
Not from Sicko, not from this place and not from anyone who needs to rely on such an obviously one-sided arguement in order to advance a position.
This shit is so slanted it makes the Swift Boat Ads look like a documentary series.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:48 pmIt’s funny, you Leftists always need someone or something to hate…
Comment by Kalashnikov — July 21, 2007 @ 10:37 pm
No we don’t “need” any thing, we have idiots like you and Bush, and the rest of his criminal cabal.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:49 pmThat “some comment made by TP” that I’m nitpicking being the topic of the story.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:52 pmYeah, why do I focus on irrelevant details like that.
We have no health care “system” in the U.S. — just a series of stovepipes that seem to have competing priorities and often leave what is best for the patient out of the equation.
We do, however, have a broken health insurance system. SICKO hits it right on the mark. It is, indeed, unfortunate that Big Pharma and for-profit hospital systems and insurance companies don’t have the integrity to admit to the problems and set about helping to find and fund solutions.
Health care consumes a disproportionate share of our GNP and is increasing at an alarming rate. In its current form, its cost threatens our competitiveness and burdens our federal budget. Our choice is not between the status quo and a “British” or “Canadian” system. Our choice is between the status quo and a unique and transformed “American” system. The kind of tripe that appeared on Drudge and that can be heard on right-wing wacko radio talk shows ads nothing to the national debate that we must begin having before we can move forward to fix this.
July 21st, 2007 at 10:55 pmCan anyone answer my question:
Why is TP devoting an entire thread to an ad at the Drudge Report?
July 21st, 2007 at 10:59 pmYou’re calling the biggest problem with public health care that plagues every system worldwide — the wait list for surgery — as a smear.
If you want to suggest this isn’t an accurate assessment then just say that. I think everyone will figure out why you haven’t though. Even if they pretend they haven’t.
Comment by Kilo
Right we don’t have a wait list for surgury. Because so many people don’t have health insurance they can’t have needed surgery. Heck, they can’t even find out that they need the surgery because most doctors won’t see somebody without insurance. But if you have to go to an emergency room you’ll see where the wait is even if you have insurance. Because all those uncovered people will be at the ER getting catastrophic care they couldn’t get diagnosed like normal people should.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:00 pmAnd that report goes on to tell you who’s in the pockets of said evil lobbyists….
Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton and Republican Sen. John McCain together received over 40% of healthcare industry contributions among the 18 major party declared candidates.
…which is why you’re gonna see as much reform in the health care sector as a result of Sicko as you did in firearms from Bowling For Columbine.
I’m gonna be interested to see how Sicko stories TP can run without once mentioning that particular lady who gets singled out by the film as the shining example of a bought-out shill.
What are we up to now, 10 ?
I mean you could understand her going unmentioned if there wasn’t something like, I dunno, a Presidential campaign going on at the moment with a clear front runner.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:02 pmKilo, Kalashnikov,
Do your homework before you embarrass yourself more. How do you defend more resources and money going for less results? Before you refer to your incorrect talking points about wait times list the drawbacks of the better healthcare systems of France Canada England etc.
They pay more in taxes but a responsible and honest conservative has to admit the fact that when ALL revenue tax and out of money spent WE, THE USA pays the most and we do not have the longevity or care these other countries system have.
Therefore why do you salute a lower quality and less efficient system? Did you lose the ability to be objective? You wouldn’t salute waste would you? Then why do you let fear cloud your judgement.
We already have socialized medicine for the elderly and veterans. We already have socilaized services in Fire, police, Libraries etc.
Do not be afraid of improving an inadequete system leaving 40 million plus uninsured adding to our collective burden and costs. That is financially and morally irresponsible.
Go ahead and prove your position now. List the advantages and disadvantages. That is if you know what your talking about and are not a simpleton ditto head.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:04 pmAmerica is behind in Polio vaccinations because we ridded the disease 30 years ago… we don’t have to vaccinate people anymore :)
Comment by jake3988
Sorry, there’s still cases of polio in the US every year. All school children need polio vaccines to attend. Smallpox was eracidated and I believe they stopped giving vaccines for that.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:04 pmIs this what hue-manna calls compassion?
How does a theater compare to Hospice? Does a crowd of people get into a doctors office, seat themselves, partake of popped corn and cool beverage, then are all treated at once and leave at the same time?
July 21st, 2007 at 11:04 pmKilo- Nothing will change regarding healtcare. The only seats at the table will be the industry itself. It has dems and repubs in their pockets.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:06 pmI just hope that one day healthcare will be administered by doctors and not clerks in cubicles at an insurance company.
Comment by Heterodoxy — July 21, 2007 @ 11:04 pm
You addressed me, but have still not answered my question. I repeat:
Why is TP devoting an entire thread to an ad at the Drudge Report?
July 21st, 2007 at 11:07 pmComment by shane — July 21, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
And that’s a terrible situation shane.
But one that’s already been adequately mentioned. In the film, in stories about the film like the one you see here and in comments like yours.
What is yet to be seen is any examination of the drawbacks of those systems promoted as alternatives. Missing from the film, from stories about the film like the one you see here and in comments like yours.
If I talk about a one-sided arguement it’s not an indication I’m after some more of that one side explained.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:07 pmI agree with Michael Moore’s statement that healthcare should not be a “for profit” industry.
If you’re in it “for the money”, then you are in it for a morally reprehensible reason (I’m atheist, but those who are not can reference I Timothy 6:10), and there is simply no justifying that.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:07 pmKalashnikov,
July 21st, 2007 at 11:09 pmYou may new here. Both are political blogs and therefore often scrutinized and critiqued. Not rocket science. Now that I answered your harmless question I await your answer.
Comment by Heterodoxy — July 21, 2007 @ 11:09 pm
“Kalashnikov” isn’t a new poster, just an unwanted one using a new name. Though he denies it, he uses the same phrases, talking points, and putdowns as “Mr. P” (and all his characters.) I would be surprised if you got a response worthy of continuing the conversation.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:13 pmKalashnikov
Kilo
et.al.
This is really a non-brainer non-partisan issue. If you have not seen the movie I highly recommend it as it has gotten positive reviews from both sides of the isle. Try to be objective and think of your loved ones. The system is deeply flawed and people are dying for profits. There is no moral or ethical reason to make medicine a for profit arena.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:13 pmO.T.
http://www.cnn.com/ 2007/ US/ 07/ 21/ tammy.faye/ index.html?eref=rss_topstories#cnnSTCText
Tammy Faye Messner dies
* Story Highlights
July 21st, 2007 at 11:13 pm* Televangelist famed for heavy makeup, frequent tears dead at 65
* She made a final appearance Thursday on “Larry King Live”
* Former singer survived PTL scandal, drug addiction
* Ex-husband, televangelist Jim Bakker, spent time in prison
THANK GODDDD!!!!!
Hetero ~ the russian rifle troll is Mr P.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:13 pmHe’s been around a while, disrupting and asking dumbass questions like this to distract.
If we don’t feed it, it will hopefully die of boredom from inventing other personae to have a conversation with itself.
I was floored by Sicko. Throughout the entire film, I kept thinking about personal experiences I have had that were so similar. It really hit home. For those who haven’t seen it yet, please do yourself a favor and check it out. Personally, I have had surgery in America (several times) and in France, once, after a bike accident. The French health care was wonderful, I couldn’t have asked for more.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:13 pmYou may new here. Both are political blogs and therefore often scrutinized and critiqued. Not rocket science. Now that I answered your harmless question I await your answer.
Comment by Heterodoxy — July 21, 2007 @ 11:09 pm
————————————————————————
Indeed, not rocket science at all. TP is having a very slow day!
As for your questions… try to rephrase them so that someone who does not subscribe to your deluded ideology can understand.
Here is your first question:
How do you defend more resources and money going for less results?
Now, this is a very broad and vague question, worded as such. Do you mean “less results” as in “less time in the waiting room to see the doctor”?
If so, this is very easily defended. But I do not think that is what you meant.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:15 pmKalashnikov follow the money and for a brief moment pretend you are an adult asking yourself one question.
Are they looking out for my best interests or their own?
July 21st, 2007 at 11:16 pmI agree with Michael Moore’s statement that healthcare should not be a “for profit†industry.
The problem is that your governance has become a for profit industry. Senators and Congressmen are not in office because they are virtuous. They are there to reap material wealth and make contacts. Look at how they bamboozled the conservative movement. They took their money and made great promises. What did these hard working middle class faithful people get in return?
Nothing.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:16 pmWhy is big pharma/med/insurance scared of Sicko?
July 21st, 2007 at 11:16 pmThey REALLY don’t want any of the truth about their industry under public scrutiny any way shape or form.
That’s why the counter smear is being launched, and why not the Drudge to carry water for them? They are a reichwing tool to the core.
Uh, you already have to wait in line to see a doctor.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:16 pm“Though he denies it, he uses the same phrases, talking points, and putdowns as “Mr. P†(and all his characters.)”
Actually, the only reason you know who I am is because I said so on an earlier thread!
Nice try, sort of…
July 21st, 2007 at 11:17 pmDo you mean “less results†as in “less time in the waiting room to see the doctor�
If so, this is very easily defended. But I do not think that is what you meant.
Comment by Kalashnikov
BZZZZZZZZtttttttttttt Debunked. Can you have a dialogue withoit insults? Stand by your empowered reasoning and knowledge. That position is factually incorrect. try again if you have the courage.
Just answer the valid questions as I did for you.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:18 pmWhy is TP devoting an entire thread to an ad at the Drudge Report?
why NOT?
it’s a good conversation starter…
besides the headline reads:
Industry-Led Smear Campaign Against SiCKO Makes Its Way To Drudge…
the subject of that statement being: Industry-Led Smear Campaign Against SiCKO
now, what have YOU got against decent health care for ALL of
July 21st, 2007 at 11:18 pmWE THE PEOPLE? …
If I talk about a one-sided arguement it’s not an indication I’m after some more of that one side explained.
Comment by Kilo
You complain about long wait in other countries and I explained why there wasn’t long waits here. But you don’t want to hear that.
Then you talk about how great corporate healthcare is and then complain that Hillary, along with all the other presidential candidates, takes campaign money from same.
Then you have the gall to call us hypocrites.
And I personally know two people who died from appendicitis, an easily diagnosed and surgically repaired ailment if seen by a doctor on a timely basis. How did these people fare better than the stories of people who waited in other countries.
Don’t bother to answer. It will just be more of your party line talking points we’ve all been sold for decades now.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:20 pmMr Pee.
Get help.
Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), as defined by the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, is a mental condition whereby a single individual evidences two or more distinct identities or personalities, each with its own pattern of perceiving and interacting with the environment. The presumption is that at least two personalities may routinely take control of the individual’s behavior. The diagnostic criteria also calls for some associated memory loss that goes beyond normal forgetfulness, often referred to as losing time or acute Dissociative Amnesia[2]. The symptoms of DID must occur independently of substance abuse or a more general medical condition in order to be diagnosed. Dissociative identity disorder was originally named Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD), and, as referenced above, that name remains in the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:20 pmJust answer the valid questions as I did for you.
Comment by Heterodoxy — July 21, 2007 @ 11:18 pm
—————————————————————–
Hey, I’m asking you to be more specific!
Now please, unless you want to dance around in the world of sophistry, what do you mean by: “more resources,” “more money” and “less results”?
July 21st, 2007 at 11:21 pmKalshnikov
List the advantages and disadvantages.
We pay the most and have worse results
We have higher child mortality
We have 40+ million without care adding to the bottom line financial hemorraging of our own system
We already have socialized medicine, should we pull it from our veterans and elderly?
What exactly is your point (without others talking points)?
July 21st, 2007 at 11:21 pmit’s a good conversation starter…
…
now, what have YOU got against decent health care for ALL of
WE THE PEOPLE? …
Comment by katy — July 21, 2007 @ 11:18 pm
———————————————————
Thank you for the honest answer.
Personally, I have no problem with decent health care for all American citizens. I’m in favor of this.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:23 pmWhy do you salute inneficiency and waste (ther than W)? We pay over 7,000 per person and we have a worse system with 40+ million not covered.
Simple enough for you?
July 21st, 2007 at 11:24 pman important point needs to be made here…
July 21st, 2007 at 11:25 pmfrom everything i’ve read and heard about the systems in
other countries, there is NO WAIT for any emergency type
surgeries… the only waits are for ELECTIVE procedures…
…
Actually, the only reason you know who I am is because I said so on an earlier thread!
Nice try, sort of…
Comment by Kalashnikov — July 21, 2007 @ 11:17 pm
I also know your real name. And why switch screen names if you’re going to admit it? Kind of defeats the purpose of anonymity, doesn’t it? Or are you simply trying to get past the site moderators because of your past ugliness on these threads?
—————-
Heterodoxy,
I told you you would be unlikely to get a reply worthy of a response, and he proved me correct.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:27 pmWayne, you are 100% correct Kalashnikov is both too ignorant of the facts to have an adult discussion and too coward to address it.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:28 pm#
an important point needs to be made here…
from everything i’ve read and heard about the systems in
other countries, there is NO WAIT for any emergency type
surgeries… the only waits are for ELECTIVE procedures…
…
Comment by katy — July 21, 2007 @ 11:25 pm
#
I was injured in a bike accident in France in 1993. My wonderful riding skills led me into a telephone pole on a thursday night. I woke up in the hospital the following morning (friday). I had surgery the following tuesday, and spent two weeks as an inpatient recovering. The care was incredible, I couldn’t have asked for more.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:29 pmComment by RUCerious — July 21, 2007 @ 11:20 pm
Mr. P can’t get help. No health insurance!
And even if you have health insurance, mental health care is the least covered. $25,000 lifetime maximum and one time inpatient coverage for lifetime. He probably used that us by the time he was 12.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:29 pmWhat exactly is your point (without others talking points)?
Comment by Heterodoxy — July 21, 2007 @ 11:21 pm
————————————————————————
My point is that you aren’t making sense.
When you make a statement like this:
July 21st, 2007 at 11:30 pmWe pay the most and have worse results
You express a quantitative relation (”the most”) and a qualitative relation (”worse”), you need to explain further in order to make sense.
Wayne, you are 100% correct Kalashnikov is both too ignorant of the facts to have an adult discussion and too coward to address it.
Comment by Heterodoxy
“Kalashnikov” is a regular troll here, who posts moronic “comments” under a series of names. Don’t bother trying to engage it in a conversation.
Like all trolls, it merely seeks attention and appears to have an infinite amount of time to waste, and no life to speak of.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:32 pm“I also know your real name. And why switch screen names if you’re going to admit it?”
You do? How’d you get that info?
I switched names because TP regulars would just glance at the comments, if they see my other name they might be frightened away!
The TPers need to breed, they are an endangered species!!!
July 21st, 2007 at 11:32 pmI couldn’t have asked for more.
Comment by Chris L
You darn lefties. See how you you don’t even get angry and want to start a war with those pesky French telephone poles.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:33 pmKalashnikov, i am confused how your gene pool survived this long or how you can afford a computer. I spelled it our SPECIFICLLY A CHILD COULD FOLLOW in #63.
Follow the letters to make words, words make sentences.
We pay in excess of $7,000 per person (thats the most)….still with me? yet we do not have the results the other countries who pay less.
Hope I didn’t strain your itty bitty brain.
Still salute failure?
July 21st, 2007 at 11:33 pmAnd even if you have health insurance, mental health care is the least covered. $25,000 lifetime maximum and one time inpatient coverage for lifetime. He probably used that us by the time he was 12.
Comment by shane
Oregon passed a law that went into effect in January and forces health insurance coverage for mental health to match the benefits offered for physical health. IOW, no limits on visits. Which is huge, given that most people in need of mental health care need it on a regular and constant basis. None of this “Oops, sorry, you don’t get any more visits for the next two years. Hope you don’t top yourself in the meantime!”
July 21st, 2007 at 11:34 pm“the results” -heterodoxy
You mean, like how we don’t have to wait as long for care?
July 21st, 2007 at 11:35 pmKalashnikov, i am confused how your gene pool survived this long or how you can afford a computer. I spelled it our SPECIFICLLY A CHILD COULD FOLLOW in #63.
Comment by Heterodoxy
Actually, the troll lives with mommy, is unemployed (although it claims to be a “student”) and mommy is paying for the computer and ISP. In all likelihood, you do not have to worry about it replicating itself. Blow-up love dolls rarely get pregnant.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:36 pmYou mean, like how we don’t have to wait as long for care?
Comment by Kalashnikov — July 21, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
#
That has not been my experience. I waited 9 months for a liver biopsy in Utah. I waited two days for surgery in France.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:38 pmVaccinations?
Gross!
I rather not contract diseases and have foreign proteins injected directly into my bloodstream, not to mention the dozens of toxins that are present in vaccines such as mercury.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:38 pmComment by gummitch — July 21, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
That is part of the problem. Some states do great things like Oregon but most states do not. Virginia obviously doesn’t have suitable mental health care. Hence the shooter and Virginia Tech, Mr. P, and
July 21st, 2007 at 11:40 pmCT.
And in response you post a 2nd time about the drawbacks of the US health care system, none of the benefits, and none of the drawbacks of alternative systems.
I didn’t call you a hypocrite. I called you pointless. I called you a parrot for the one-sided portrayal that we’ve already got and don’t need more of.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:41 pmNow why don’t you complain about that assessment of you a second time while again reconfirming it. Or not.
Comment by Chris L — July 21, 2007 @ 11:38 pm
Thanks for the anecdote!
July 21st, 2007 at 11:41 pmOh, yeah, we NEVER have to wait to see a doctor in the US.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:41 pmUh huh.
Vaccinations?
Gross!
I rather not contract diseases and have foreign proteins injected directly into my bloodstream, not to mention the dozens of toxins that are present in vaccines such as mercury.
Comment by Deniz Yeter
Then we can assume your mommy homeschooled you too since vaccines are required to enter school.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:42 pm“I also know your real name. And why switch screen names if you’re going to admit it?â€
You do? How’d you get that info?
Comment by Kalashnikov — July 21, 2007 @ 11:32 pm
Well, let’s just say that: 1) I recognize the pattern in some of your comments as belonging to some others you’ve made under your various names, and 2) You told me.
Now, if you really are who I think you are, you’ll remember when and where you told me this.
Please remember that despite the fact that I hate what you’re doing, I am going to reveal your “true identity”.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:45 pm…not to mention the dozens of toxins that are present in vaccines such as mercury.
Comment by Deniz Yeter — July 21, 2007 @ 11:38 pm
yea, about that… i’ve heard that europe does not allow
July 21st, 2007 at 11:46 pmmercury based preservatives (thumerisol) in their vaccines…
you can also request that your health dept. or clinic not use them…
try anyway…
I didn’t call you a hypocrite. I called you pointless. I called you a parrot for the one-sided portrayal that we’ve already got and don’t need more of.
Now why don’t you complain about that assessment of you a second time while again reconfirming it. Or not.
Comment by Kilo
As somebody who pays $250 per week per employee for healthcare you’re not likely to get support of the current system from me. If I didn’t have to pay so much in employee healthcare I might be able to take a real vacation some time. In addition to paying that for BC/BS I’ve already payed over $1,500 in out of pocket expenses for just me this year.
Why don’t you tell us about all the benefits of US healthcare. You’re the big supporter.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:47 pmNow, if you really are who I think you are, you’ll remember when and where you told me this.
Please remember that despite the fact that I hate what you’re doing, I am going to reveal your “true identityâ€.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 21, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
————————————————————————-
If you think that my name is Stephen Dedalus, it is not.
I borrowed that name from Mr. Joyce. Just as you borrowed the title of his novel “A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man” for one of your blog entries.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:48 pmComment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 21, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
————————————————————————-
If you think that my name is Stephen Dedalus, it is not.
I borrowed that name from Mr. Joyce. Just as you borrowed the title of his novel “A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man†for one of your blog entries.
Comment by Kalashnikov
And in typical Mr. P fashion, insists another thread be all about him.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:51 pmI called you a parrot for the one-sided portrayal that we’ve already got and don’t need more of. -kilo
it goes right over their heads, doesn’t it?…
July 21st, 2007 at 11:54 pmoh, the hypocrisy…
Actually I forgot the word “not”. My mistake, and I apologize. And I guess I was wrong about your “real name”. (I never claimed to be an expert on literature.) Still too afraid to come out and be your true self? I wasn’t going to reveal what you told me. But you did at least confirm that you were the person I was thinking you were. Thanks for doing that.
So you are the one who used to call himself “PiP”, “Mr. President”, and all those various Roman Emperors and constantly post stupid crap like crosses all over the place and “Cheney in 2008!!!!”
Didn’t you get the hint when they tried to stop you from posting before? Why do you want everyone to think you are an immature teenager with no friends to hang out with?
July 21st, 2007 at 11:57 pmWhy do you want everyone to think you are an immature teenager with no friends to hang out with?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 21, 2007 @ 11:57 pm
—————————————————————————
Oh that, it’s all part of a neocon conspiracy!!!!!!!!
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:02 amHEyOOOOoooOOOOOoooOOOooooOOOOooOOooooOOoooOOOOooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CHENEY 2008!!! †
Actually I forgot the word “notâ€.
I figured. I know you’re a good person, Wayne.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:03 amComment by Mr. President — July 22, 2007 @ 12:02 am
I thought so. You know, blow-up dolls don’t count as “friends”.
But getting back to the point of this thread (sorry for the derailment, folks), tell me something. Do you believe that healthcare should be a “for profit” industry? Even if that meant that you or a lov…I mean, someone you care about, can’t afford necessary surgery or medication?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:05 amDo you believe that healthcare should be a “for profit†industry?
Yes.
Even if that meant that you or a lov…I mean, someone you care about, can’t afford necessary surgery or medication?
No. But I don’t quite follow this statement “someone you care about”.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:07 amYou mean, like how we don’t have to wait as long for care?
Comment by Kalashnikov
Speak for yourself. I blew out a knee, and had to wait four months before State disability approved my claim for workman’s comp. That’s four months hobbling around on a damaged knee at work on a limited work schedule, on painkillers. After I was approved for surgery, I was back to work, walking normally within a week. In California, the state disqualifies everyone on their initial claim - it isn’t until a review process is completed that injured workers can get the assistance they need. If others must wait as long as I did, it must be a huge waste of resources. People who could return to work within a relatively short period and not be a drain on the system are forced to wait, running up the eventual price tag for the State, as those who must wait are then paid retroactively for time spent waiting for care.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:07 amtest
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:07 amI figured. I know you’re a good person, Wayne.
Comment by Mr. President — July 22, 2007 @ 12:03 am
And despite everything you’ve posted and everything that everyone else has said about you and to you, I still see potential in you. (You appear to have read books from classic literature which I haven’t.)
I still think that you should begin again with an entirely unrelated name and start working for the forces of goodness and light (which would be us.)
You are wasting your great talent for sarcasm on the wrong crowd. It’s so much more fun to do it to acerebralists.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:08 amNo. But I don’t quite follow this statement “someone you care aboutâ€.
Comment by Mr. President — July 22, 2007 @ 12:07 a
I was going to say “loved one”, but I couldn’t be positive there was such a person. It sounds like you’re saying you favor a “for profit” healthcare systemn, but not if it means someone you care about can’t get needed surgery or medication.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:10 amHello TP:
Let’s start our one hour chat right now. It’s great to be here. Who would like to ask the first question?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:13 amCrap we must have this now, because every time I go to the doctor at my scheduled time I wait, and wait and wait and wait. Took my girlfriend a month ago for Lasik and waited an hour and a half. And insurance doesn’t cover that, even though it’s cheaper than glasses/contacts.
Where the hell are you getting lasik? A butcher with a cleaver?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:14 amSen. Thompson,
Is it true that when you stared into Mexico from the southern border that illegal immigration stopped for a month?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:15 amWe already have socialized medicine, should we pull it from our veterans and elderly?
Yep, programs which in themselves are driving this nation to bankruptcy.
Let’s pile on another 40 million to the bill!
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:16 am“Who would like to ask the first question?”
Comment by Fred Thompson
Do you really think your “outsider” strategy will work, given the substantial amount of time you’ve spent as a DC lobbyist? And as a follow up: Do you really believe conservatives don’t know this?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:17 amHello Billy,
Thanks for your question. Yes it is true. Back in late 2006 I went to the southern border and looked into Mexico. There wasn’t one single illegal alien that crossed over the border over the next month.
Also, I once ended a fillibuster by tearing out a senator’s heart and showing it to him before he died.
Next question please.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:17 amDidn’t you get the hint when they tried to stop you from posting before? Why do you want everyone to think you are an immature teenager with no friends to hang out with?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
Because he is?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:17 amComment by barfly — July 22, 2007 @ 12:07 am
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 12:10 am
I still think that there should be some incentives for healthcare providers.
I generally agree with Moore on this one, but I don’t trust the gov’t to run an honest system.
Right now, I actually don’t even have insurance, so I don’t really “have a dog in this fight,” to quote Michael Vick.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:17 amOregon passed a law that went into effect in January and forces health insurance coverage for mental health to match the benefits offered for physical health. IOW, no limits on visits. Which is huge, given that most people in need of mental health care need it on a regular and constant basis
That whoosh you are hearing is all the jobs that are on the way out of Oregon!
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:18 amAs somebody who pays $250 per week per employee for healthcare you’re not likely to get support of the current system from me. If I didn’t have to pay so much in employee healthcare I might be able to take a real vacation some time. In addition to paying that for BC/BS I’ve already payed over $1,500 in out of pocket expenses for just me this year.
You’d be paying much more than that in taxes for all the illegals and the unproductive welfare queens!
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:19 amLet’s pile on another 40 million to the bill!
Comment by m12
$12 billion a month being spent in Iraq.
Get real.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:19 amHelly barfly,
Yes I am an outsider. As you probably know, I retired from the senate in 2002 and I have been a very popular actor on the hit televsion series “Law and Order” for all of this time. I was DA Aurther Branch.
Next question please.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:19 am$12 billion a month being spent in Iraq.
Get real.
Comment by barfly — July 22, 2007 @ 12:19 am
Helluva lot cheaper than health care.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:21 am“You’d be paying much more than that in taxes for all the illegals and the unproductive welfare queens!”
Comment by m12
Read my last post.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:21 am*disclosure
I am not really Fred Thompson. This is for entertainment purposes only.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:22 amThat whoosh you are hearing is all the jobs that are on the way out of Oregon!
Comment by m12 — July 22, 2007 @ 12:18 am
#
Both Google and Oracle have just recently discussed building their largest datacenters in Oregon, mainly due to the cheap power.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:22 amRight now, I actually don’t even have insurance, so I don’t really “have a dog in this fight,†to quote Michael Vick.
Comment by Kalashnikov — July 22, 2007 @ 12:17 am
Now that was actually funny. I know that you are liberal at heart and just do this to be annoying. Conservatives really don’t have a sense of humor. A real conservative poster would have made some moronic fat joke about Michael Moore, but you actually made a clever reference to a current topic. Like I said, I see hope for you even if others have written you off.
As for the government running an “honest system”, we could have that if we had oversight (even “civilian”) and their finances were closely monitored. At the very least, cutting out the unnecessary (and sometimes deadly) middleman would bring costs way, way down. Which I know you know.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:23 amFred Thompson,
Did you get to bang any of the broads playing the part of Assistant D.A. on Law and Order?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:24 amAs for the government running an “honest systemâ€, we could have that if we had oversight (even “civilianâ€) and their finances were closely monitored.
Monitored by who?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:25 amI am not really Fred Thompson. This is for entertainment purposes only.
Comment by Fred Thompson — July 22, 2007 @ 12:22 am
Well, duh!
While we’re at it, why did you rent a pickup truck and pretend to drive around the state of Tennessee in it when in fact you were often driven to campaign stops in a limo and drove the truck the last short distance? Wasn’t that a rather dishonest way of trying to convince the voters that you were “just like them”?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:25 amMonitored by who?
Comment by m12 — July 22, 2007 @ 12:25 am
How about you and me?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:26 amHello Kalashnikov,
I really wanted to bang Elizabeth Rohm, but I married a hottie during this time (and she’s going to be the next first lady).
Thanks for your question.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:26 amNext question please.
Comment by Fred Thompson
You haven’t answered mine yet. You cannot be considered an outsider - and your republican opponents for president will paint you as a high-living know-nothing, repeating Nixon’s words about your mental quality. Why do you think republicans don’t care about your inside-the-beltway lifestyle? They are trying to distance themselves from the current batch in Washington, while you seem to offer only more of the same.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:27 amI really wanted to bang Elizabeth Rohm, but I married a hottie during this time (and she’s going to be the next first lady).
Thanks for your question.
Comment by Fred Thompson — July 22, 2007 @ 12:26 am
I’d rather have Dennis Kucinich’s wife as the next first lady.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:28 amHow about you and me?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 12:26 am
I’d love to, but when $2 trillion is flowing through government coffers into the hands of pet dogs, phanthom businesses, and other fraudulent fiends, it’ll take more than you and me to monitor it….
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:28 amComment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 12:23 am
I agree, and I think that there is much that could be done to improve the system, if the right people are working on those improvements. Above all, it should be about helping the people, but as soon as an office is created, it seems that one of the goals of that bureau is to find ways to make money. Just like the insurance companies do today.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:29 amI am not really Fred Thompson. This is for entertainment purposes only.
Comment by Fred Thompson
I’m just having fun pointing out “your” chances aren’t very good ;)
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:30 amI’d love to, but when $2 trillion is flowing through government coffers into the hands of pet dogs, phanthom businesses, and other fraudulent fiends, it’ll take more than you and me to monitor it….
Comment by m12 — July 22, 2007 @ 12:28 am
With the insurance companies taken out of the equation, I doubt it would be that high. And I’m good with numbers. I’m sure my wife would be glad to help, as would several of the regulars here if it meant keeping an eye on government. Pleanty of libertarians who post here who would love nothing better than the chance to make sure the govenment doesn’t rip us off. Why else wouldn’t you do it? (It would be a reasonably paid job, of course. Neither of us could afford to do it for free.)
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:31 amI know, I just can’t get through to him.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:32 am“I’d rather have Dennis Kucinich’s wife as the next first lady.”
I’d like to “have” her.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:33 amThere’s a concept for you.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:34 amWhat else ? Up for some meat inspections while you’re at it ?
Fred Thompson banged her?
http://l.yimg.com/ img.tv.yahoo.com/ tv/ us/ img/ site/ 24/ 60/ 0000032460_20060926101433.jpg
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:34 amAbove all, it should be about helping the people, but as soon as an office is created, it seems that one of the goals of that bureau is to find ways to make money. Just like the insurance companies do today.
Comment by Kalashnikov — July 22, 2007 @ 12:29 am
It may “seem” that way, but of course the goal of government is not to “make money”. It’s to provide necessary services to its citizens that they may not be able to do or afford themselves. Hence you’ve got your police departments and (in many areas) fire departments, highway departments, food inspectors (if Bush hasn’t fired them all yet), safety inspectors and so on. And remember, businesses are required by law to maximize profits. Governments are not supposed to be run like businesses because the goals are completely different. If the goal of our government was to “make money”, don’t you think the president would have been “fired” long ago?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:36 am“I’d love to, but when $2 trillion is flowing through government coffers into the hands of pet dogs, phanthom businesses, and other fraudulent fiends, it’ll take more than you and me to monitor it….”
Is this the same person who typed: “Let’s pile on another 40 million to the bill!”?
So, fiscal responsibilty in healthcare, good; fiscal responsibility in military spending, don’t worry about it.
Loopy.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:37 amWith the insurance companies taken out of the equation, I doubt it would be that high. And I’m good with numbers. I’m sure my wife would be glad to help, as would several of the regulars here if it meant keeping an eye on government. Pleanty of libertarians who post here who would love nothing better than the chance to make sure the govenment doesn’t rip us off. Why else wouldn’t you do it?
Tell you what. If you want to help and you’re so good with numbers, maybe you should head over to the IRS and try to close the $300 billion tax gap?
http://www.irs.gov/ newsroom/ article/ 0,,id=137247,00.html
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:40 amIs this the same person who typed: “Let’s pile on another 40 million to the bill!�
So, fiscal responsibilty in healthcare, good; fiscal responsibility in military spending, don’t worry about it.
Loopy.
Err, that was 40 million people, not 40 million dollars….piling on $200-300b+ to cover all those chumps is the height of fiscal stupidity!
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:41 amMy apologies. I thought “I’d love to, but when $2 trillion is flowing through government coffers into the hands of pet dogs, phanthom businesses, and other fraudulent fiends, it’ll take more than you and me to monitor it†referred to the Black Hole of fiscal responsibility in Mesopotamia.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:41 amHow about you and me?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 12:26 am
Pshaw! Like We the People should be overseeing the government. What, are you high? It’s not like there exist citizen watchdog groups. It is not like there exists, already, citizen oversight groups that keep an eye on things. It’s not like the “special people” we give POWER should be answerable to us, Wayne! It’s not like they work for us! Sheesh!
“Ignore the man behind the curtain. He isn’t taking a cut! He isn’t breaking all the rules he wants us to follow! He isn’t doing anything at all, just ignore him!!!
Don’t tell the people that the healthcare costs they pay in insurance will be 100% wiped away, unless they choose to pay a premium, private, for-profit health insurance company for “extra coverage”. You know, for botox injections, and tummy-tuck #96, and those D-cups you always wanted. Don’t tell them that everyone in the country will have better health insurance for less cost! Don’t tell them that the 45 million people without health insurance will suddenly be covered!
Don’t tell the people that they would pay less per year and get better service. Just tell them that they will wait in line longer…
…
…
…if it’s elective surgery.
Aww, crap, I said it out loud again! now I guess those damned greedy bastards will want HEALTH CARE rather than making me and my friends rich. Scumbag peons. Don’t they know we are special, because we’re rich!?!”
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:44 amOregon passed a law that went into effect in January and forces health insurance coverage for mental health to match the benefits offered for physical health. IOW, no limits on visits. Which is huge, given that most people in need of mental health care need it on a regular and constant basis
That whoosh you are hearing is all the jobs that are on the way out of Oregon!
Comment by m12
Don’t you just hate it when you’re wrong? I mean, seriously, maybe you should learn to check the data before you spout obvious b.s. like this.
http://tinyurl.com/ypb6c3
Labor force in Oregon: up. Employment in Oregon: up. Unemployment in Oregon: down.
This is a really good opportunity for m12 to admit to being WRONG.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:48 amAww, crap, I said it out loud again! now I guess those damned greedy bastards will want HEALTH CARE rather than making me and my friends rich. Scumbag peons. Don’t they know we are special, because we’re rich!?!â€
They are special. They are the source of investment, hard work, ideas, and growth for our nation.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:50 am“Labor force in Oregon: up. Employment in Oregon: up. Unemployment in Oregon: down.”
Didn’t they also raise the minimum wage, with no ill effects to the state’s businesses?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:52 amTell you what. If you want to help and you’re so good with numbers, maybe you should head over to the IRS and try to close the $300 billion tax gap?
Apples and oranges. That’s a different job altogether and not what I was talking about. Got any other “rational” reasons why this can’t be done?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:52 amApples and oranges. That’s a different job altogether and not what I was talking about. Got any other “rational†reasons why this can’t be done?
It’s not apples and oranges at all. If you want to pay for universal health care, the government has to collect that money somehow!
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:53 amIf the goal of our government was to “make moneyâ€, don’t you think the president would have been “fired†long ago?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 12:36 am
——————————————————————————-
Well, it was my understanding that money was being filtered to a select few companies which are doing quite well, and that the long term investments have not fully matured as of yet.
As to keeping an eye on the gov’t, the other day TP had a thread that focused on the negligence of a civilian oversight board:
http://thinkprogress.org/ 2007/ 07/ 15/ bush-intelligence-oversight-board-silent-for-5-12-yrs/
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:53 am“In America you wait in line to see a movie. In government-run healthcare systems, you wait to see a doctorâ€:
hcadrudge.jpg
why is it I see no one on medicare, which is government run, waiting in line for health care? Most I know on medicare would not trade it.
I would imagine the insurance co are going to lobby hard on this…. too late as the people are waking up to the fact the insurance industry is one big money hole - 30% of the cost is lost to this middle man. We do not need to spend 50% of our tax dollar money to the pentagon…other countries do not… cut this in half and give 25% to a government health care system. It is time to look towards other countries, other countries that are very happy with their system, as a model.
Bye bye insurance industry.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:54 amComment by gummitch — July 22, 2007 @ 12:48 am
Oregon’s labor laws went into effect only this year. Your numbers predate that.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:54 amThey are special. They are the source of investment, hard work, ideas, and growth for our nation.
Comment by m12 — July 22, 2007 @ 12:50 am
Because they are motivated by the wrong reasons. They are not motivated by their desire to save lives and cure disease. Why do you hate human beings so much?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:54 amTell you what. If you want to help and you’re so good with numbers, maybe you should head over to the IRS and try to close the $300 billion tax gap?
http://www.irs.gov/ newsroom/ article/ 0,,id=137247,00.html
Comment by m12 — July 22, 2007 @ 12:40 am
*Underreporting noncompliance is the largest component of the tax gap. Preliminary estimates show underreporting accounts for more then 80 percent of the total tax gap, with non-filing and underpayment at about 10 percent each.
*Individual income tax is the single largest source of the annual tax gap, accounting for about two-thirds of the total.
*For individual underreporting, more than 80 percent comes from understated income, not overstated deductions.
*Most of the understated income comes from business activities, not wages or investment income.
*Compliance rates are highest where there is third-party reporting or withholding. Preliminary findings show less than 1.5 percent of wages and salaries are misreported.
Do you even read what you LINK TO?
Considering that the poor usually get all of their taxes back, and the middle class tend to work for someone else, who acts as a third party reporting or withholding wages and salaries, that leaves whom, do you think, that makes up the largest tax gap? Hmmm…who would underreport money made on business activities? Someone barely scraping by who gets all their taxes back every year anyhow so wouldn’t pay that tax? Someone who makes a solid income, but has their $50,000-100,000 a year job’s taxes withheld by their boss? Someone who has large number of extra-job business activities? On top of that, who’d be most able to underreport their financial activities? Someone with a few financial activities each year, or someone with alot of private business activities on the side each year?
Hmmm.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:54 amBecause they are motivated by the wrong reasons. They are not motivated by their desire to save lives and cure disease. Why do you hate human beings so much?
Yeah, so? Are you a doctor? Do you give away your services to save lives and cure diseases?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:55 am“They are special. They are the source of rigged investment, overcompensated hard work, stolen ideas, and growth for our nation’s corporate elite.”
Comment by m12
Fixed it for you.
No thanks necessary.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:55 amwhy is it I see no one on medicare, which is government run, waiting in line for health care? Most I know on medicare would not trade it.
Why? Because the medicare entitlement is leeching off 100 million working taxpayers!
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:56 amComment by Moderation — July 22, 2007 @ 12:54 am
When did I suggest all of the assertions you pulled out of your behind?
Obviously, since the rich are the only ones truly burdened with federal taxes in our economy, they are the only ones who will be dodging them…..
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:58 am“Yeah, so? Are you a doctor? Do you give away your services to save lives and cure diseases?”
Comment by m12
I guess he’s never heard of pro bono lawyers. Is it such a stretch to think doctors might also commit humanitarian acts, without compensation?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:59 amComment by Kalashnikov — July 22, 2007 @ 12:53 am
From the article in the thread you posted to:
“The board was vacant for the first two years of the Bush administration.”
Perhaps that’s a large part of the reason they didn’t get much oversight done. I’m sure plenty of civilian review boards from the past have done their jobs amirably. I think you could understand why Bush would not want an active oversight of his intelligence activites, especially since he wanted to manipulate it into making the people and the Congress believe things that were not true.
What if you joined me, my wife, and m12 on the board? Would you have faith then that it was being done correctly?
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:00 amOregon’s labor laws went into effect only this year. Your numbers predate that.
Comment by m12
First of all, they are not “labor” laws. Second of all, the laws have been on the books since 2005. Any employers that intended to leave had plenty of notice.
So-called “conservatives” always make the same stupid claims and never relinquish them, in spite of evidence to disprove them. “Ooooh, if you raise the minimum wage many jobs will be lost!” and yet, just the opposite has been proven to occur.
Good benefits encourage workers to keep their jobs, and good health care means a healthy and productive workforce.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:00 am“Why? Because the medicare entitlement is leeching off 100 million working taxpayers!”
Comment by m12
And no one currently on medicare ever made a payroll contribution to the system.
Loopy.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:01 amyou wouldn’t guess that mr.pee is a philosophy major,
working on that masters… or so we were told before…
and, as a student, is still covered by the parent’s policy…
fortunate son…
by the way, the government is YOU… you’d best learn to
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:02 amtrust yourself, and get serious about helping to fix this mess…
it’s OK to have good government… but it takes YOU…
working together with all of US… WE THE PEOPLE…
remember?
I guess he’s never heard of pro bono lawyers. Is it such a stretch to think doctors might also commit humanitarian acts, without compensation?
They might on occasion, but not for 40 million people! Someone has to pay for med school loans, lost time, and huge malpractice costs for large torts.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:02 amWould you have faith then that it was being done correctly?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 1:00 am
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:04 am———————
Well, that all depends on what we see being done, and if we did find abuses, if we actually had the power to fix the problem (which would depend on the nature of the problem, and might involve increasing taxes or denying people the quick/quality care that they should receive).
Yeah, so? Are you a doctor? Do you give away your services to save lives and cure diseases?
Comment by m12 — July 22, 2007 @ 12:55 am
No, I’m not a doctor, but neither are you. If that makes us unqualified to discuss options then we should both leave this thread.
And, if you were paying close attention to what I said earlier, I said that healthcare should not be a “for profit” industry. That doesn’t mean the doctor must “give away [his] services” for free. he can if he wants to, but he can still earn a living wage.
If you saw someone in need of help, would you refuse to do so just because there was no profit in it?
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:04 amAnd no one currently on medicare ever made a payroll contribution to the system.
Loopy.
With medicare outlays growing at far higher rates than inflation? No, they didn’t contribute a whole lot.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:04 amLooks like “Sen Fred” has done head for the shed.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:05 amWe the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Why is it We the People are forking out 50% of our tax dollars to the pentagon so bush can have his illegal wars and cheney his merc military?
It is time to put our funds towards We the People, start taking care of the People instead of They the Thugs.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:05 amSingle payer health care for all.
you wouldn’t guess that mr.pee is a philosophy major,
working on that masters… or so we were told before…
and, as a student, is still covered by the parent’s policy…
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:05 amfortunate son…
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Not so. I do not have insurance at the moment, and I have not for over 3 years.
“With medicare outlays growing at far higher rates than inflation? No, they didn’t contribute a whole lot.”
Is this going to be like your workers’ monetary compensation assertion?
We both know how that turned out…
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:07 amComment by Kalashnikov — July 22, 2007 @ 1:04 am
It sounds like you’re looking for excuses to not even try. Of course such an agency (for lack of a better term, but should not be lumped in with all other agencies) would have authority to fix problems which, constitutionally (remember that wonderful thing?), could not involve giving us the power